This Nurse Discovers the Importance of FU Money- Ep. 94

Diania Merriam is the founder of The EconoMe Conference, an event centered around financial independence, also known as the "Ted Talks" of the FIRE movement. She's also the host of the popular podcast Optimal Finance Daily where she narrates articles from the best personal finance blogs on the planet. After getting out of $30k of debt in 11 months, she used her newfound financial freedom to negotiate a remote working arrangement with her employer, take a 2 month sabbatical to walk 500 miles across northern Spain on the Camino de Santiago, and launch her own business. Diania saves 60% of her income and is on track to be financially independent by the time she’s 40 years old.

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Transcript

3:33

All right, Nurses on Fire I'm super excited to have Diana Merriam joined us on the podcast. We're going to be talking about the incredible EconoMe conference that I would love for each and every one of you to join me at, and we're going to share her money story. It's super incredible. Just really want to take this time for you to get to know Diana, because she's an incredible person. So Hey. Diana Well, what an intro, like no one can see this, but I'm doing a hair flip over here. Thank you for having me. Of course. So of course the let's just have, and let me share your money story with us. Sure thing. So my money story starts in the fall of 2015. I'm in my late twenties, living in New York city, and I realized that I'm 30 grand in debt. For like no reason. Now I knew that I had some debt in my twenties. Obviously I'm like making payments towards student loans and credit card debt. Right. It's like, I knew I had some, but I never looked at it collectively. Until I decided like, Hey, let's, let's like get a better idea of my financial picture. So I ended up running a credit report on myself so that I could see all the open lines of credit collectively. And that's what led me to realize that I was 30. Granted that for literally no reason. It was just me being mindless about money and living outside my means. So half of my debt was credit card debt just from living outside my means. And then the other half of my debt was student loan debt, which most people would look at that and say, Oh, 15 grand of student loan debt. That's really not that bad, which it's not, except that I got a full academic scholarship to school. Like I should have not had any student loan debt. And I took out debt for living expenses because it was offered to me. And, you know, I was like living on campus for the first two years. It's incredibly expensive to live on campus. And so I just took out this debt. And so that's what led me to kind of have this realization in my late twenties that I really wanted to get out of debt so that I could go walk the Camino de Santiago. That was my goal. So for my 30th birthday, I wanted to walk 500 miles across the country. It's across Northern Spain. It's actually historically a Catholic pilgrimage. So I didn't do it for religious reasons. And. It was just this incredible trip of a lifetime that I wanted to do. But I knew that if I was going to do that, I was going to need to get my financial house in order. So that was kind of my initial motivation and a friend of mine at the time knew I had this goal and she. Sent me an article from Mr. Money Mustache, which I'm sure a lot of your listeners have heard of this blog. It's one of the most popular blogs in the fire movement. And I felt like reading this article. It was probably the one about how your debt is an emergency. Like you've got to look at it like it's like your hair on fire. Well, it definitely created a sense of urgency in me. I felt like it was this like refreshing punch in the face. I felt for reading this. Blog, because it totally changed my mindset around money and consumerism, and really had me questioning, like, what was I doing with my time, with my money? What was I valuing? It really had me questioning a lot. And it led me to do this like complete 180. I paid off 30 grand of debt and 11 months. And then from there I started saving about 60% of my income. Which led me to take those two months off of work, unpaid to go to Spain and walk the Camino. At the time that I started planning this, I didn't know that my employer was going to give me a sabbatical. I thought I'd have to quit because I didn't have any examples of anyone taking a sabbatical. I didn't know that that was a thing. And so I'm really grateful that they allowed me the time off. I had a job when I got back, but it was still two months no income and spending money. I probably spent. Maybe around $7,000 total on that trip over two months, which actually isn't that bad. I was spending more living in New York city. So yeah. So I would say that getting out of debt just started this like trajectory for me to create more options than I ever knew were possible with money. And it resulted in a lot of me buying my own time and freedom, which I didn't know was an option when it came to money matters. So. Yeah. And that's kind of it in a nutshell, I think it's just like, first of all, it's interesting. Number one, that you wouldn't want to walk across Spain on this pilgrimage. I want to know like where that came from, but also like where your mindset was at the time, because who can really take two months off of work? Like, like how did you think that that was possible for you? Yeah, so good questions. The seed for the Camino is kind of planted in my mind by an aunt that I have. Who's like super adventurous. So I remember growing up and I'd get these like yearly letters from this woman that I like never saw. She lived on the other side of the country. She was my dad's youngest, half sister. And I just thought her life seems so adventurous. She never had any kids. And she just like traveled the world and did all this crazy stuff. And so I really looked up to her and in my twenties, I started spending more time with her. And I remember in my early twenties, she told me that she walked the Camino in her when she was in her forties. And it was like this incredible life experience. So she encouraged me to think about it. And she said that. She was going to do it again with my uncle, for his 70th birthday, they were going to go walk 500 miles across Spain for his 70th birthday. And I was thinking, well, I don't want you to go alone. Like, what if something happens and they need help. So I kind of wanted to like go, just escort them across the country. That's what I thought that I was doing. And, you know, a number of years go by and, and I remember asking her again, are we supposed to do that thing? And like, what is it again? And she reminded me about it. And then she said, yeah, 2017 is the year that we're going to go. And I realized that was the year I was turning 30, the same year. My uncle was turning 70. So it felt like the sign, like I'm meant to do this thing and that's going to be my 30th birthday present to myself. And you know, what's funny about that is they were my initial motivation. And then as the trip got closer, my aunt started her own business and they weren't able to go. So like, like a few months before I, and I had like changed my whole life and to enable me to go on this trip and they were like, Oh yeah, we can't do that. So I ended up going by myself and I'm really glad that I did. It was something that I think I needed to do on my own. And so that was my initial motivation. The more I learned about it, the more I realized that that was something I really wanted to do for me, because I was approaching my 30th birthday. And I think it's one of those big birthdays where it just, it's a very reflective birthday. You're like, what the hell am I doing with my life? You know? And I found myself in a position where it's like, I've got no man, no kids. I'm newly at a debt. I have the kind of freedom that people dream about. And I'm not doing anything with it, you know, and I just feel like I got to a place in my life where I did everything I thought I was supposed to do as far as like career development and climbing the ladder. And, you know, just, I think career wise things were going well, but I also, you know, had just kind of a string of very on the surface relationships. I, you know . Just wasn't very happy and couldn't really understand why. And so I felt like, let me go to school to do this weird spiritual journey thing and maybe I'll, you know, figure it out. I really had the anticipation that I was going to figure my whole life out. On the Camino and that is not how it worked out. I think I got more aware about like, where am my demons are, but I wouldn't say I slayed them, you know, while I was walking the Camino. But, but yeah, I think it was just a very, kind of very early midlife crisis, I guess you could say, but like who takes two months off of work? Like how did you think that that was possible? I think. I just, to me, it's like, if you ha, if you can get the money equation right, then, then it is possible. Right. Because what else, what else would make it not possible? I mean, I guess if you have kids or other obligations, but for me, it was just about the money. And I knew that like where I was at in my career, if, if I was going to have to find a new job, when I got back. You know, I figured I could make that work. I mean, I thought that I was going to go meet my husband on the Camino. Like I just, I didn't know what was going to happen afterwards. I was just throwing myself to the wind, you know, and just letting the chips fall where they may and. But I did get lucky in that when I asked my employer and this was actually a really funny conversation because I said to them, hey look by the way, I'm going to move to Cincinnati from New York city. So I know, you know, not many people work remotely, but I'm just hoping you'll let that work for me. And, you know, so by the way, I'm moving away, but I don't want to quit my job. So they allowed me to work remotely. And then I said, And by the way, I also need two months off unpaid. And the way I explain it to them is like, Hey, if I was telling you right now that I'm pregnant, then I'd be taking three months off, you know, but I don't want to birth a child I want a birth, a world adventure. And I only need two months off. So it's like, you're getting a good deal out of this. No, I really love it because I just want the listeners to understand like how your mind thinks and what is, what you believe is possible for you and how you just make things happen. Because we're going to transition to the EconoMe conference in a little while, but I think it just speaks to like the things that you allow to happen in your life or the things that you create, I should say in your life. and it's a Testament to just how you believe that it's possible. And I just want us to bring that up because a lot of nurses, even though nurses, you know, can do a lot of non-traditional things that most people that have nine to five jobs can't do. I think. We get into this kind of rut of not thinking that we could ask for something like that or dreaming big enough. And so I wanted you to share that story because I want us to dream bigger and I want us to really have bigger goals for ourselves. I mean, like walking across the country, that's one thing, but this phenomenal event that you put on has changed people's lives literally. And so we'll talk about that in a little while, but I wanted to actually talk about. Like, so you're talking about this like incredible employer that you were able to negotiate this sabbatical in, but you recently just like totally quit your job. I know. I said I did well, and this is a really, I think this is a great example of even when you have a good thing going for you, you need financial stability because shit happens, things change. Right? And so I was with this company for nine years, they treated me very well. I saw great raises. Like I said, they let me move away. They let me, you know, take the sabbatical. I was really good at what I did. And then about a year ago I got a new boss. And the dynamic like completely changed. And, you know, I watched very slowly over the years, all of the women just kind of walking out the door, leaving the organization, the tone, and the culture of the organization really changed. We were acquired and spun off and joint venture. Like it just resulted in a very, very different culture. And I found myself as the only woman on my team. I was the lowest paid person on my team, but I was nowhere near the lowest performer. And I hadn't had a raise in three years now. I probably didn't have a raise in three years because I didn't really ask for one. I felt like I had good raises up to that point. And, you know, I felt like I had a lot of privileges with the working remotely with taking two months off. But, you know, it was three years. It wasn't like, okay, I got this, I got an unpaid sabbatical, so I should never have a raise again like that. That's not the trade-off that I was making. And I was a salesperson I could to the millions upon millions of dollars that I was bringing in the company. And yet I was the lowest paid person on the team. And so the company started this like diversity and inclusiveness initiative. It really opened a can of worms for me, because it made me realize how much I was being held to a higher standard than my male colleagues. And I brought it to my manager's attention. I made a very strong case for me to get a raise and I was told no. So I left, I quit and, and I, I wrote a very long letter to the head of HR and explains why I quit and, you know, All of the reasons why I felt that it was unfair, especially because one of my male colleagues was given a promotion to VP and he did not bring in any more money than me. So there was, they couldn't offer me an explanation why? And so the only explanation I could come up with is discrimination. And so I'm not in a position to tolerate that, you know, and, and maybe it's due to the way I was raised. Like my mom was the breadwinner. When I was in school. It was the girls who did the best in school. You know, I graduated at the top of my class, went to college on a full academic scholarship. I was surrounded by females. And then even in my working career, I've always worked for women. I've always worked for female owned companies and. I've never, ever felt disadvantaged because I'm a woman ever until this experience. And what I realized is. Even though I was disadvantaged in that circumstance, that there are plenty of companies that don't treat women that way. So why would I stand for it? Why would I accept that kind of treatment? It's in my power to walk away and that's what I needed to do. And especially when I looked at my finances, I'm not financially independent. I'm about six years away, but. I'm Coast FI. If you think about the, like the FI game as a game, you know, it's almost like you unlock a level when you get to coast FI, because you don't have to worry so much about saving for a traditional retirement. And then I had about two years of living expenses, liquid. And a big part of why I had that is for security around the EconoMe conference. Cause it's kind of a money drain right now. But you know, I had a year in cash and a savings account and then I had a year in an after tax brokerage that's really easily accessible. So I knew that financially. I would be okay. And I actually saw it as an opportunity to take a huge bet on myself and explore self-employment because one of the things I've always found fascinating is that when we think about investments, we always want to diversify. Our portfolio, right? Like we don't want to just put all of our money in one stock. And yet when it comes to our income, for most of us, it comes from one place. And so to me, that's a really risky proposition. And so I wanted to play with this idea of like, could I create multiple streams of income. And I have the financial stability and kind of runway to be able to play with that. And if it doesn't work, you know, I'm giving myself a year. If it doesn't work, then I'll go and find another W2 job. But I just think I owe it to myself to try. And that's what this money is buying me is like the opportunity to give it a go. That's just incredible. Like, I love it. I love that you were just like, listen, I'm out. Like I'm out. I've gotten myself to this place where I'm Coast FI, I have the money say like, let's do it. So again, this just goes to show like how much fortitude you have, how strong you are as a person. But it also goes to show like the things that. You can create when you put your mind to things. And so I want to talk about the EconoMe conference. Like I want to talk about like, how that started and like I want to talk about last year, like that's the last event that I went to pre shut down, like literally like two days before my state shut down. Like so I want to talk about that, like where it started and where it's at now, because I believe it's an incredible event that I want each and every one of you guys to attend. So let's talk about it. Awesome. Thank you. Well, the EconoMe Conference really originated from me asking myself the question, what would I do with my time if I didn't have to worry about making money? Because to me like wealth and what I'm striving for is the ability to create what I want to see in the world without any need for it to provide for my income. I really do see FIRE as this process of separating your financial life from your work life. If you don't have to have those things intertwined. It opens up a lot of flexibility and opportunity. And so that's when I thought about, okay, if I didn't have to worry about earning money, what would I do with my time? I'd want to create like a party about money. I mean, that, that's really where, where it originated from. And I, myself am a very extroverted person. As you know, I love to go to events. I love to talk to people face to face and there is such an incredible online community when it comes to fire content and things that you can read and people that you can engage with. But communicating with people through a screen has just, it's just not my thing. I don't enjoy it. I don't feel like I really connect with people. And, you know, I'm, I'm definitely a lurker, like I'm on the Facebook groups and I'm reading all this stuff, but I rarely comment or participate. And I just think it's, cause it's just not my style of connecting with people. And so I wanted to create an event that would help inspire and inspire people on their path to FIRE and create community like in person, community. And there's this event that I go to every year called the world domination summit. It sounds crazy like it's like produced by Pinky and The Brain or something like that. Right. But I actually found it because Mr. Money mustache. Stash spoke there at like, I don't know, six years ago. And so I saw his presentation and the event just looked incredible and it's, it's they get like 2000 people together for like this weekend where it's all these kind of main stage speakers that are talking about very unconventional ways to live. And I I've gone to this event, like, I don't know, three or four times now, and every time I go. I just feel like my life is so full of possibility. It's a feeling it's almost like I'm going to church once a year. Like, that's what it feels like, because I'm surrounded by these people just doing incredible things and it's like, you feed off the energy. And I thought, what if I could create something that makes other people feel this feeling, but about money, that to me was like, Whoa, that is what I want to do with my time. And I think we did it right, because you were there Naseema like there was a vibe. It is not this like stuffy financial conference. It is quite literally a party about money. And, you know, we've got a music designer, we've got a lighting designer, like just the whole vibe of the room and the way that we like curate the speaker lineup to me, each speaker has to be as entertaining as they are informative. That's why I picked you Naseema spoiler alert Naseema's speaking at the next economy conference. But I just feel like this topic is such a taboo topic. And if there is a way to make this fun. And so that, that is what I'm looking to create with EconoMe. It took me 20 months to plan the first event. It is the first. Large scale, high production value of event in the FIRE space. And so we're really trying to like,pave the wayhere. We had 250 people at the first event, which is awesome because like, who the hell am I? Right. I don't have a blog. I didn't have a podcast. I didn't, I didn't have any audience to build off of. It was just like, sheer enthusiasm of me just like getting out there and telling everyone about this event. And now we're going into our second year. Of course I did not anticipate creating this business and then being hit by a pandemic. I could have never seen that coming. None of us could. But I got super lucky. I mean, the first event was on March 7th. It was literally one week before the University of Cincinnati shut down, which is our venue. And now we're doing the second event in November of this year and we have, you know, backup plans and COVID policy and all that kind of stuff to make sure that if we're gathering in a large group, that it's going to be safe. We have a backup date for March 2022. If we still can't, you know, gather in large groups at that time. So I'm doing everything possible to make it You know, appealing to people. Cause I know a lot of people are like I don't know what's going to happen this fall. I don't want to buy a ticket now, but we, if it's not safe together in November we have a backup date for March 20, 22, or I'll give you a free refund or just hold onto your ticket and put it towards any future economy event. So I'm, I'm making it very easy for people to Buy Now! Oh my God. So I'm excited to be here speaking, even though I'm very nervous. You're going to be awesome. Well, I'm super excited to be a speaker in the conference. That, like I said, I want all of the listeners to the podcast, anybody that follows a platform at all to attend this conference. And so just wants to give a like, kind of like an overview of how it's going to be set up this year. Like what can people expect? To come that are coming to the conference. Yeah. Yeah. So on Friday night, which is November 12th, we're actually hosting a live taping of the Stacking Benjamin Show. So Joel Saul-Sehy host of Stacking Benjamins. He is one of our speakers, but we're going to do a special live recording of his show where like renting out a comedy club for it venue to TBD because a lot of them are. Are still closed right now. But that's the plan for Friday night. And then Saturday, we have two sessions of main stage speakers. And then before and after each one will be opportunities for breakout sessions. And what I like about the combination of format is that yeah. You get to like, see an amazing performance on the main stage, but then you also get to go to a breakout session where there's a facilitator for each breakout session on different topics. Like last year we did one on healthcare. We did one on entrepreneurship. We did one on, you know, building community or investing. So there there'll be more of them this year than last year because I heard the audience loud and clear. They loved the breakout sessions, but breakout sessions are a really great way to learn from each other. The person facilitating it is just facilitating a discussion amongst the attendees because yes, we have amazing speakers, but there are such amazing people in the audience that we can learn from. And so you, you know, you can get to know the other attendees through these breakout sessions. And then we do an after party on Saturday night. And then on Sunday, we're going to do a post event activities, and this is just a way to keep the party going and spend more time together. So we'll do an urban hike of Cincinnati there's an amazing facilitator for this guy is like one of those most. Interesting guy in the world, kind of guys, he he'll stop you on a street corner in society. And just like tell you everything that happened there a hundred years ago, it's fascinating, but he leads a, like a three hour walk walking towards Cincinnati. And the reason why I want to do that is because I moved to Cincinnati from New York City. About what, four years ago now. And this is just an amazing city. It is one of the lowest cost of living Metro areas in the country. I bought a house here for $150 grand. I know I'm like watching Naseema's face right now. It is amazing. And I just feel like it has everything you would want out of a big city yet. None of the downsides. So. I would love for Cincinnati to be like the FI capital. So that's why we do a walking tour. We're also looking at another activity during the day, like maybe some kind of like cooking class at a farm around Cincinnati, that would be fun. And then Cincinnati is also very well known for our craft breweries. So we like, we like to do a brewery tour as well in the evening. So lots of fun to be had at the EconoMe conference. You'll learn a lot. You'll meet a lot of great people. And you'll get to see this great city. Yeah. When I loved most about the EconoMeconference was that, like you said, the audience members are just incredible people. So I think like, yes, you'll, you'll meet the people who you've been following in this space. You'll hear about you'll listen to the speakers on stage and you'll get to meet them. But the interaction with the audience by far was incredible. And. It's in such an intimate, it's an intimate enough setting that you are able to like really meet and engage with people. And so that was my favorite thing about the conference. Let's do a recap real quick on how people can get tickets and who they can expect to see at the conference. Absolutely. So you can go to economeconference.com and that's economy with an M E at the end is not an M Y because I'm so clever. Well, if you also look at my name, there's an extra IUI name. So apparently I just like misspelled words. So that's where I've gotta be comes from. So, yeah, economeconference.com is where you can get all the information on the schedule, the speakers, where you can buy tickets. Again, it is November 13th and 14th of this year, but if there's an issue, then it will be on March 19th and 20th of 2022. And I am announcing on September 1st, if it's going to be pushed back. So I I'm encouraging people like. Buy your tickets. Now, our capacity is 700 people and tickets are going really, really fast right now. So buy your tickets now, but don't book your flight or hotel until after September 1st. And I also have hotel blocks and all that, or fun, fun fact that a lot of people don't know about the conference. I will actually match you with a local host so that you can be like sponsored by someone to stay for free because the whole thing is about creating community, right? So we have. We facilitate carpools as well as accommodations. If local people want to host people coming in, because then you get to meet more people and make friends even before the conference starts. So that's what's happening with EconoMe. And then as far as the speakers, I mentioned Joe Saul-Sehy, obviously Naseema. We've also got This woman Angel Cellucci. I am so excited about her, you know, because you didn't, you interview her recently Naseema. Yes her episode is going to air before yours. So people won't know who she is. Yes. She is amazing. And so she's going to be talking about, you know, what do you do when you get a big medical bill? Because we talk so much about health insurance, but she's like approaching medical costs from a totally different angle. So really excited about her. There's another woman named. Stephanie Zito who talks about credit card rewards and travel. She's traveled to like over a hundred countries. She considers herself a professional credit card hacker. So we could definitely learn something from her. And I saw her speak at World Domination Summit, and she blew me away. So I'm very excited about her. We've also got Bitches Get Riches. So talk about entertaining. I mean, if you read their blog, like they are absolutely hilarious and so very excited about them. We've also got financial Panther, which I loved getting to know him because he like left a high-income just like me. He was a lawyer. He he like turned to the gig economy and is just having a blast with like having ownership over his time. And so we had a real meeting of the minds and I'm really excited about him. He was actually requested by an attendee, a couple attendees last year, so very exciting. We've got JD Roth. JD Roth has been instrumental in helping me build this speaker lineup. He's been super, super helpful. I'm working very closely with him and he's very beloved within the community. So it's, it's great to be able to have him on team economy. Let's see, who am I adding? Cause I'm about, about halfway there with the speakers. We've got like a couple more slots to fill, but, but yeah, that's where we're at right now. That is super exciting. Like I'm thrilled about the line again. I feel like a little bit of imposter syndrome, but I'll be there. You're going to be awesome. I'm going to show up as 110%, you know, like I'll be there. I'm still nervous. You've got a story to tell on the EconMe stage. It's going to be great. And I will say that. Probably the number one reason why I wanted you to speak is because the number one rule of the economy stage is authenticity. And you have that in spades Naseema. So we are very excited to have you. Well, you know, I have been known for keeping it real. That's the only way I know how to be, but yeah, I'm just like so excited about the conference and it's like, I really I mean just for myself, but what my audience can learn from it. And so I really hope that in hearing Diana story and hearing about the conference that you'll really want to attend, come hang out with me. I think it's. Amazing. You're matching people with hosts. I didn't know anything about Cincinnati, but I was really impressed. When I got there last year, I mean, even like looking at the old historical, like those narrow row houses, like I was like, so enthralled about the history and I'm really excited for this tour. Cause I want to learn more, but I just think this conference just encompasses so many things that people need are don't even know they need when it comes to their finances, because ultimately your finances, isn't just about money. It's really about how you approach life. And I think that the way that this conference is set up. It's set up so that it's so holistic that it approaches all those areas, community education, but application as well. So I love that you put this event together. I just love what you're doing. Diania. You're one of my favorite people. Shouldn't be a secret, but talk about you. But yeah, I think you're amazing. And I just looking forward to attending and I'm looking forward, but like for all my audience to be there But, yeah, I just, I want to thank you so much for putting this conference together for coming and sharing it with my audience, because even if they don't attend I think like in knowing your story and knowing how you approach life , you continue to open up possibilities for yourself, but that allows other people to see what's possible. And like that's the whole premise of my podcast, just for nurses to know. What's possible. Thank you so, so much, Diania. I love that. Oh, thank you so much, Naseema. No, this is great. And I will say that, you know, I, when sometimes when I tell my story, I'm like, who's that, is that me? Like what? But it really starts with, you know, Doing one hard thing, like opens the door to more hard things. It's like paying off debt is a really hard thing. And that's kind of where it started for me. Once I did that, it was like, Oh, I can do hard things. What other hard things can I do? And then you just start to like, test your boundaries more and more and more. And then before, you know, it you're like quitting your job and starting a conference and walking across the country, you know, It's just, it kind of happens little by little, but I think it's the willingness to, to just get curious and, and, you know, take those, those steps to, to see, you know, what things you can accomplish, what your financing for sure. And then I would just be remiss to not mention the fact that. The reason why Diania is such an incredible woman is because she was raised by such an incredible woman. I got the honor to meet your mom and guess what? Her mom's a nurse. So go figure hair. That's right. Yup. Definitely very influential for sure. Well, all right, Diana, it has been a pure play pleasure. Again, I look forward to going to the economy conference and I look forward to seeing all of you guys there. Thank you so much for sharing your story. Thank you for continuing to inspire. And I just appreciate you from the bottom of my heart. Thanks Naseema. Thanks so much.